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	<title>The Evangelical Atheist &#187; Quotation</title>
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	<description>Helping Mankind Overcome Religion</description>
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		<title>Take Me Down to the Paradise City</title>
		<link>http://evangelicalatheist.com/2005/09/28/take-me-down-to-the-paradise-city/</link>
		<comments>http://evangelicalatheist.com/2005/09/28/take-me-down-to-the-paradise-city/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>I Am</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Observation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Quotation]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evangelicalatheist.com/2005/09/28/take-me-down-to-the-paradise-city/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If I believed in heaven, I would kill myself.  
Let me clarify that.  If I thought that the popular notion of heaven (clouds, harps, streets of gold, eternal happiness) were truly awaiting me after death, I’d be pretty eager to get there.  I’ve always wanted wings.  It sounds lovely.  Well, [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>If I believed in heaven, I would kill myself.  </p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>Let me clarify that.  If I thought that the popular notion of heaven (clouds, harps, streets of gold, eternal happiness) were truly awaiting me after death, I’d be pretty eager to get there.  I’ve always wanted wings.  It sounds lovely.  Well, actually, it sounds a little boring, but if you’re eternally happy, that must not matter.  I would love to see my dead friends and relatives again.  I wouldn’t miss the living ones too much because I’d know they would show up sooner or later.  I might even still be able to see them on Earth.  Yep, I’d be ready to go.  </p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>Most Christians believe that suicide isn’t allowed (although the Bible is vague on this point), so I might have to wait a while.  It this case, I would refuse all medical treatment.  I’d probably volunteer to work with infectious patients at a hospital.  I don’t think it would take to long to catch something that would kill me if I won’t take antibiotics.  Also, I’d move to California.  There are more interesting ways to be killed by nature in California than nearly anywhere else I can think of.  I’d take up extreme sports, too.  I would spend my weekends skydiving, bungee jumping and swimming with sharks.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>I would leave it in god&#8217;s hands.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>If the Bible is to be believed on the subject of heaven, I’d be pretty disappointed when I got there.  First of all, I would be a servant.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><blockquote>
<p>Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. (<a href="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev007.html#15">REV 7:15 KJV</a>)</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p></blockquote></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>It&#8217;s a nice neighborhood&#8230;</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><blockquote>
<p>In my Father&#8217;s house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. (<a href="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn014.html#top">JOH 14:2 KJV</a>)</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p></blockquote></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>&#8230;but all the nice houses probably belong to these guys:</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><blockquote>
<p>And round about the throne [were] four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. (<a href="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev004.html#2">REV 4:4 KJV</a>)</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p></blockquote></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>I would soon discover that the people in charge are kinda lame.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><blockquote>
<p>Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (<a href="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat005.html#3">MAT 5:3 KJV</a>)</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p></blockquote></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>Then I would find out about the crime problem.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><blockquote>
<p>And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. (<a href="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat011.html#12">MAT 11:12 KJV</a>)</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p></blockquote></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>I&#8217;d be especially unhappy when the war broke out.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><blockquote>
<p>And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, (<a href="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev012.html#7">REV 12:7 KJV</a>)</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p></blockquote></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>There&#8217;s even a rumor going around that heaven isn&#8217;t actually eternal.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><blockquote>
<p>Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. (<a href="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat024.html#35">MAT 24:35 KJV</a>)</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p></blockquote></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>All things considered, I agree with Nietzsche.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><blockquote>
<p>
If it depended on my choice,<br />
I think it would be great<br />
To have a place in Paradise;<br />
Better yet &#8211; outside the gate.<br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-Friedrich Nietzsche, <em>The Gay Science</em></p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p></blockquote></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><strong><em>~I AM~</em></strong></p></p></div>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>35</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>No Post Until Sunday</title>
		<link>http://evangelicalatheist.com/2005/07/29/no-post-until-sunday/</link>
		<comments>http://evangelicalatheist.com/2005/07/29/no-post-until-sunday/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2005 01:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>I Am</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Carnival of the Godless]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Quotation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Site]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evangelicalatheist.com/2005/07/29/no-post-until-sunday/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#8217;ve been working ridiculous hours this week, and I&#8217;m preparing for the Carnival of the Godless on Sunday, so I won&#8217;t have a post up until then.  Sorry for such a long gap.  Speaking of COTG, I&#8217;ll accept contributions until Saturday at 8PM Eastern, so there&#8217;s still a chance for procrastinatheists to get [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>I&#8217;ve been working ridiculous hours this week, and I&#8217;m preparing for the Carnival of the Godless on Sunday, so I won&#8217;t have a post up until then.  Sorry for such a long gap.  Speaking of COTG, I&#8217;ll accept <a href="mailto:iam@evangelicalatheist.com">contributions</a> until Saturday at 8PM Eastern, so there&#8217;s still a chance for procrastinatheists to get something in.    Remember, you can also submit a piece you like from someone else&#8217;s blog.  However, &#8220;if you submit a post that you really think ought to be included from another blog, and the author of that blog also submits a post, we&#8217;ll use their post.&#8221;</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>Here are some good quotes to keep you amused until Sunday.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>&#8220;A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes.&#8221;<br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <i>-James Feibleman</i></p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>&#8220;The Jews, the Muslims and the Christians, They&#8217;ve all got it wrong. The people of the world only divide into two kinds, One sort with brains who hold no religion, The other with religion and no brain.&#8221;<br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <i>-Abu-al-Ala al-Marri, 10th century Syrian poet</i></p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>&#8220;I can indeed hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true, for if so, the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my Father, Brother and almost all my best friends, will be everlastingly punished. And this is a damnable doctrine.&#8221;<br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <i>-Charles Darwin</i></p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>&#8220;For out of fear and need each religion is born, creeping into existence on the byways of reason.&#8221;<br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <i>-Friedrich Nietzsche</i></p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>&#8220;Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.&#8221;<br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <i>-Napoleon Bonaparte</i></p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>&#8220;It ain&#8217;t the parts of the Bible that I can&#8217;t understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand.&#8221;<br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <i>-Mark Twain</i></p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>&#8220;Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites.&#8221;<br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <i>-Thomas Jefferson</i></p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><strong><em>~I AM~</em></strong></p></p></div>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>3</slash:comments>
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		<item>
		<title>Islam: A Peaceful Religion</title>
		<link>http://evangelicalatheist.com/2005/07/21/islam-a-peaceful-religion/</link>
		<comments>http://evangelicalatheist.com/2005/07/21/islam-a-peaceful-religion/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2005 03:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>I Am</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[History]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Islam]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Quotation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[World Events]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evangelicalatheist.com/2005/07/21/islam-a-peaceful-religion/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[February 26, 1993  &#8211; World Trade Center
&#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160;6 dead, 1,000 injured
October 4, 1993 &#8211; Black Hawk Down Incident (Somalia)
&#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160;18 dead
June 25, 1996 &#8211; US Base in Saudi Arabia
&#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160;19 dead
August 7, 1998 &#8211; East African Embassies
&#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160;220 dead
October 12, 2000 &#8211; [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>February 26, 1993 </em> &#8211; <strong>World Trade Center</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;6 dead, 1,000 injured</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>October 4, 1993</em> &#8211; <strong>Black Hawk Down Incident (Somalia)</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;18 dead</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>June 25, 1996</em> &#8211; <strong>US Base in Saudi Arabia</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;19 dead</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>August 7, 1998</em> &#8211; <strong>East African Embassies</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;220 dead</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>October 12, 2000</em> &#8211; <strong>U.S.S. Cole</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;17 dead</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>September 11, 2001</em> &#8211; <strong>World Trade Center</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;3,000 dead</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>December 22, 2001</em> &#8211; <strong>Richard Reid (the Shoe Bomber) Captured</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;disaster averted</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>April 11, 2002</em> &#8211; <strong>Tunisian Synagogue</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;19 dead</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>October 12, 2002</em> &#8211; <strong>Bali Nightclubs</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;202 dead</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>November 28, 2002</em> &#8211; <strong>Israeli-Owned Hotel in Kenya</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;16 dead</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>May 12, 2003</em> &#8211; <strong>Riyadh Compound</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;at least 34 dead</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>May 16, 2003</em> &#8211; <strong>Casablanca (three targets)</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;45 dead</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>December 15, 2003</em> &#8211; <strong>Istanbul Synagogues</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;at least 23 dead, more than 300 injured</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>December 20, 2003</em> &#8211; <strong>British Consulate and HSBC Bank in Istanbul</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;27 dead, over 450 wounded</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>March 11, 2004</em> &#8211; <strong>Madrid Trains</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;191 dead, at least 1,800 injured</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>May 29-30, 2004</em> &#8211; <strong>Khobar Siege</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;22 dead</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>Summer 2004</em> &#8211; <strong>Beheadings in Iraq</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;at least 10 dead</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>July 7, 2005</em> &#8211; <strong>London Transit System</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;52 dead, 700 injured</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><em>July 21 2005</em> &#8211; <strong>London Transit System</strong><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;no fatalities</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>This list is just attacks that have been attributed to Al Qaeda (at least in part).  It does not include the independent work of the Abu Nidal Organization, Abu Sayyaf Group, Al-Gama&#8217;at al-Islamiya, Armed Islamic Group, Asbat Al-Ansar, Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Harakat Mujahideen, Hezbollah, Islamic Army of Aden, Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, Jamah Islamiyah, Lashkar e Tayyaba, Mujaheddin e Khalq, Palestinian Islamic Jihad or Salafist Group for Call and Combat.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>&#8220;&#8230;slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare to ambush them.&#8221; (Quran 9:5)</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><strong><em>~I AM~</em></strong></p></p></div>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>12</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>See How Those Christians Love One Another</title>
		<link>http://evangelicalatheist.com/2005/06/27/see-how-those-christians-love-one-another/</link>
		<comments>http://evangelicalatheist.com/2005/06/27/see-how-those-christians-love-one-another/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2005 01:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>I Am</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Observation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Quotation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[World Events]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evangelicalatheist.com/2005/06/27/see-how-those-christians-love-one-another/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&#8220;First of all, Mr. Otero was strangled, a bag put over his head and strangled. And then I thought he was going down. Then I went over and strangled Mrs. Otero, and I thought she was down. Then I strangled Josephine, thought she was down, and they I went over to Junior and put the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>&#8220;First of all, Mr. Otero was strangled, a bag put over his head and strangled. And then I thought he was going down. Then I went over and strangled Mrs. Otero, and I thought she was down. Then I strangled Josephine, thought she was down, and they I went over to Junior and put the bag on his head. After that, Mrs. Otero woke back up, and you know, she was pretty upset, what&#8217;s going on? So I came back and at that point in time I strangled her with a death strangle at that time. &#8221;</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>&#8220;OK. I moved &#8212; well after. I really can&#8217;t remember, judge, whether I had her tie him up or she tie him up. Anyway, I moved &#8212; basically I moved her to another bedroom, and he was already secure there by the bed. I tied his feet to the bedpost so he couldn&#8217;t run. I tied her in the other bedroom, and I came back to strangle him. And at that time we had a fight.&#8221;</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>&#8220;I went back to finish the job on Kathryn. And she was fighting. And at that point in time, I&#8217;d been fighting her and I just &#8212; and then I heard some &#8212; I don&#8217;t know whether I was basically losing control. The strangulation wasn&#8217;t working on her and I used a knife on her.&#8221;</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>&#8220;I told Mrs. Vian that I had a problem with sexual fantasies and I was going to tie her up and may that I might have to tie the kids up. And if she would cooperate with us &#8212; cooperate with me at that time. We went back. She was extremely nervous. I think she even smoked a cigarette. And we went back to one of the back areas of the porch, explained that I had done this before. &#8221;</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>&#8220;So anyway, we went back to her bedroom. And I proceeded to tie the kids up and they started crying and got real upset, so I said, oh, this is not going work. So we moved them to the bathroom. She helped me. And then I tied the door shut. We put toys and blankets and odds and ends in there for the kids, to make them as comfortable as we could. We tied the &#8212; we tied one of the bathroom doors shut so they couldn&#8217;t open it, and we shoved &#8212; she went back to help me shove a bed up against the other bathroom door. And then I proceeded to tie her up. She got sick and threw up. I got her a glass of water, comforted her a little bit and then I went ahead and tied her up and put a bag over her head and strangled her.&#8221;</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <em>-Dennis Rader</em><br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;BTK Killer<br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;plead guilty to 1o counts of 1st degree murder<br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;elected president of Christ Lutheran Church council after 30 years in church leadership</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>I can&#8217;t add anything to this.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><strong><em>~I AM~</em></strong></p></p></div>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>13</slash:comments>
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		<item>
		<title>Unconscious Greeks</title>
		<link>http://evangelicalatheist.com/2005/06/18/unconscious-greeks/</link>
		<comments>http://evangelicalatheist.com/2005/06/18/unconscious-greeks/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jun 2005 18:02:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>I Am</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[History]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Psychology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Question]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evangelicalatheist.com/2005/06/18/unconscious-greeks/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[At the suggestion of a reader (jdt), I&#8217;ve been reading The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes (1976).  I&#8217;m not even 100 pages in, but there&#8217;s already enough material to make for a good post.
Jaynes starts out with a discussion of what exactly consciousness is.  At [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>At the suggestion of a reader (jdt), I&#8217;ve been reading <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0618057072/qid=1119111100/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_ur_1/002-2792082-7624051?v=glance&#038;s=books&#038;n=507846">The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind</a></em> by <a href="http://www.julianjaynes.org/">Julian Jaynes</a> (1976).  I&#8217;m not even 100 pages in, but there&#8217;s already enough material to make for a good post.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>Jaynes starts out with a discussion of what exactly consciousness is.  At first glance, that seems like a ridiculous and simplistic question, but try to answer it, and you&#8217;ll quickly see that it&#8217;s not.    He uses evidence from psychological experiments to show that consciousness is not required for concepts, learning, thinking or reason.  &#8220;Preposterous!&#8221;, you say.  Well, read the book.  He then goes on to tie consciousness to language and, specifically, to metaphor.  Consciousness is a metaphorical construct that allows for spatialization of thought, narratization of our lives, and explanation of our actions.  The last two sentences summarize all of Chapter 2, so I&#8217;m sorry if it&#8217;s unclear, but I&#8217;m not writing a book report here.  I want to get directly to the good stuff.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>Chapter 3 is where the book becomes applicable to our subject matter on this blog.  Jaynes begins by trying to figure out when consciousness first arose.  By this point, he has established that consciousness is predated by language, so we&#8217;re looking for a time after the origin of language.  To have evidence, we need written records, so we&#8217;re looking after 3,000 BCE.  Furthermore, we need a language we completely understand.  Cuneiform, Egyptian Hieroglyphics and the like go out the window, and we arrive at ancient Greek as the earliest written language that is totally understood by modern man.  Jaynes then uses <a href="http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext02/iliab10.txt"><em>The Iliad</em></a> to show that Greeks around the time of the Trojan War, still had not developed consciousness.  I know.  I was floored by that, too.  Jaynes himself calls this conclusion &#8220;disturbingly interesting.&#8221;</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>He takes passages from the text and clearly illustrates the fact that at no point in the epic do the characters exhibit will or volition.  At every turn, they are told what to do by the gods, at least aurally, and sometimes in person.  He gives examples of ancient Greek words used in the text that later came to have meanings related to consciousness via the process of the metaphorical development of language (discussed in a prior chapter), but which had no such significance at the time.  He coins the phrase <em>bicameral mind</em>.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><blockquote>
<p>In distinction to our own subjective conscious minds, we can call the mentality of the Myceneans a <em>bicameral mind</em>.  Volition, planning, initiative is organized with no consciousness whatever and then &#8216;told&#8217; to the individual in his familiar language, sometimes with the visual aura of a familiar friend or authority figure or &#8216;god&#8217;, or sometimes as a voice alone.  The individual obeyed these hallucinated voices because he could not &#8217;see&#8217; what to do by himself.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p></blockquote></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>These are the same voices heard today by schizophrenics, and others with mental disabilities.  In fact, Jaynes points to evidence that MANY of us experience these voices.  We just know better than to actually attribute them to an outside source.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><blockquote>
<p>
One afternoon I lay down in intellectual despair on a couch.  Suddenly, out of an absolute quiet, there came a firm, distinct loud voice from my upper right which said, &#8220;Include the knower in the known!&#8221;  It lugged me to my feed absurdly exclaiming, &#8220;Hello?&#8221; looking for whoever was in the room.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>One young biologist&#8217;s wife said that almost every morning as she made the beds and did the housework, she had long, informative, and pleasant conversations with the voice of her dead grandmother in which the grandmother&#8217;s voice was actually heard.  This came as something of a shock to her alarmed husband, for she had never previously mentioned it, since &#8220;hearing voices&#8221; is generally supposed to be a sign of insanity.</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p></blockquote></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>A study done in England in the 19th century indicated that 7.8% of men and 12% of women had this type of hallucination.  All of this leads me to some questions.  Have any of you experienced this?  Do religious fundamentalists who claim that god has spoken to them mean it literally because they are misunderstanding this phenomenon?  Is there any excuse for religion in a conscious world?</p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p>&#8220;In a sense, we have become our own gods.&#8221;<br />
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <em>-Julian Jaynes</em></p></p></div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph in your reply below' class='clickquote'><p><p><strong><em>~I AM~</em></strong></p></p></div>
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