Comments on: Between Iraq and a Hard Place - The Children of the 21st Century http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/03/09/between-iraq-and-a-hard-place-the-children-of-the-21st-century/ Helping Mankind Overcome Religion Mon, 08 Sep 2008 05:58:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: social scientist http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/03/09/between-iraq-and-a-hard-place-the-children-of-the-21st-century/#comment-4735 social scientist Wed, 29 Mar 2006 07:42:40 +0000 http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/03/09/between-iraq-and-a-hard-place-the-children-of-the-21st-century/#comment-4735 Conleythorn, I decided I was heterosexual when I first tried sex with a member of the opposite sex, who knows what I may have decided had I tried it in my youth with a member of my own sex? Maybe I might have liked it and decided to go that way, I'll never know.

Conleythorn,
I decided I was heterosexual when I first tried sex with a member of the opposite sex, who knows what I may have decided had I tried it in my youth with a member of my own sex? Maybe I might have liked it and decided to go that way, I’ll never know.

]]> By: conleythorn http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/03/09/between-iraq-and-a-hard-place-the-children-of-the-21st-century/#comment-4658 conleythorn Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:47:04 +0000 http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/03/09/between-iraq-and-a-hard-place-the-children-of-the-21st-century/#comment-4658 Social S & Roya: Recent findings are that male homosexuality seems to be determined during the final 3 months of gestation, and is apparently a hormonal effect. Indications are that a male fetus stimulates the mother's immune system to a far greater extent than does a like-gendered fetus. An interesting consequence is that the liklihood of a homosexual child (male) increases for each subsequent male offspring. In other words, the more older brothers a boy has, the more likely it is that he will be homosexual. This pattern does not hold for females. Interestingly, it also does not hold for left-handed males (apparently right-brainedness confers some manner of immunity or protection from the hormonal effect.) Stay tuned for further discoveries. In the meantime, try to remember just when it was that you decided you were going to choose to be heterosexual, and when it was that you decided not to like squash or spinach.

Social S & Roya: Recent findings are that male homosexuality seems to be determined during the final 3 months of gestation, and is apparently a hormonal effect. Indications are that a male fetus stimulates the mother’s immune system to a far greater extent than does a like-gendered fetus. An interesting consequence is that the liklihood of a homosexual child (male) increases for each subsequent male offspring. In other words, the more older brothers a boy has, the more likely it is that he will be homosexual. This pattern does not hold for females. Interestingly, it also does not hold for left-handed males (apparently right-brainedness confers some manner of immunity or protection from the hormonal effect.) Stay tuned for further discoveries. In the meantime, try to remember just when it was that you decided you were going to choose to be heterosexual, and when it was that you decided not to like squash or spinach.

]]> By: Tommykey http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/03/09/between-iraq-and-a-hard-place-the-children-of-the-21st-century/#comment-4620 Tommykey Sun, 19 Mar 2006 23:17:30 +0000 http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/03/09/between-iraq-and-a-hard-place-the-children-of-the-21st-century/#comment-4620 I totally disagree with you SS. Gays, including several I have known, stated that they "knew" from a very early age what they were. Homosexuality a choice? Yeah, a man or a woman is going to choose to be ostracized by family, friends and society at large just to be in a relationship with someone from the same gender. That makes a lot of sense. I don't claim to know why a small percentage of people are gay, perhaps there is some evolutionary purpose for it. Another thing, SS, there is no such thing as a gay lifestyle. Gays are just as varied as those of us who are not. Some are very outwardly conservative in dress, and appearance, work in professions and such, while others are shall I way, more flamboyant. You refer to some people as "experimenting" with the same sex while younger but having no trouble being aroused by someone of the opposite sex and getting married later on. That's an easy one SS. Gee, maybe that's just it, they were straight people who were experimenting. Maybe we are talking about hedonistic people who are essentially heterosexual in nature but have sexual experiences with someone of the same gender out of curiosity, to break cultural taboos and so forth. That is not the same as being gay, and yes, what they did was a choice. On the other hand, a gay person is attracted to someone of the same gender as heteros are attracted to people of the opposite gender. They have this choice: (a) they can suppress their homosexual feelings and try to lead a "straight" life and hope that it will all work out, or (b) they can decide to be true to who they are and face the prospect of not being accepted by family, friends, neighbors etcetera. Anyone here who has watched the tv show "The Shield" will be familiar with one of the minor characters, Julien. He is a black LA police officer who is a Bible believing Christian who from the first season of the show, has had to come to grips with the fact that he is gay. He loathes himself at times, precisely because his Christian faith tells him that what he is doing is an abomination. At one point, he tries to goad a fleeing suspect he has cornered into shooting him because he does not want to live anymore. He becomes involved in a relationship with a petty criminal. Eventually he goes to some kind of sexual reversion therapy or something like that recommended by his pastor. He gets into a relationship with a single mother of a young boy and marries her. They try to have a child of their own but he is unable to perform. There is a scene in one episode where he goes to a clinic where he is supposed to provide a sperm specimen so that his wife can be artificially inseminated. Again, he is unable to bring himself to the necessary arousal until he takes out a gay sex mag. Julien's character is perhaps the saddest in the ensemble cast of "The Shield", but the show stopped focusing on his character's personal life in Season 4, and has only barely touched on it in season 5. It's too bad, because I felt it was one of the bravest performances ever shown on a television program. The only thing I felt that topped it in terms of bravery was Dylan Walsh going at it with the Kimber blow-up doll in season 2 of "Nip/Tuck".

I totally disagree with you SS. Gays, including several I have known, stated that they “knew” from a very early age what they were. Homosexuality a choice? Yeah, a man or a woman is going to choose to be ostracized by family, friends and society at large just to be in a relationship with someone from the same gender. That makes a lot of sense.

I don’t claim to know why a small percentage of people are gay, perhaps there is some evolutionary purpose for it. Another thing, SS, there is no such thing as a gay lifestyle. Gays are just as varied as those of us who are not. Some are very outwardly conservative in dress, and appearance, work in professions and such, while others are shall I way, more flamboyant.

You refer to some people as “experimenting” with the same sex while younger but having no trouble being aroused by someone of the opposite sex and getting married later on. That’s an easy one SS. Gee, maybe that’s just it, they were straight people who were experimenting. Maybe we are talking about hedonistic people who are essentially heterosexual in nature but have sexual experiences with someone of the same gender out of curiosity, to break cultural taboos and so forth. That is not the same as being gay, and yes, what they did was a choice. On the other hand, a gay person is attracted to someone of the same gender as heteros are attracted to people of the opposite gender. They have this choice: (a) they can suppress their homosexual feelings and try to lead a “straight” life and hope that it will all work out, or (b) they can decide to be true to who they are and face the prospect of not being accepted by family, friends, neighbors etcetera.

Anyone here who has watched the tv show “The Shield” will be familiar with one of the minor characters, Julien. He is a black LA police officer who is a Bible believing Christian who from the first season of the show, has had to come to grips with the fact that he is gay. He loathes himself at times, precisely because his Christian faith tells him that what he is doing is an abomination. At one point, he tries to goad a fleeing suspect he has cornered into shooting him because he does not want to live anymore. He becomes involved in a relationship with a petty criminal. Eventually he goes to some kind of sexual reversion therapy or something like that recommended by his pastor. He gets into a relationship with a single mother of a young boy and marries her. They try to have a child of their own but he is unable to perform. There is a scene in one episode where he goes to a clinic where he is supposed to provide a sperm specimen so that his wife can be artificially inseminated. Again, he is unable to bring himself to the necessary arousal until he takes out a gay sex mag. Julien’s character is perhaps the saddest in the ensemble cast of “The Shield”, but the show stopped focusing on his character’s personal life in Season 4, and has only barely touched on it in season 5. It’s too bad, because I felt it was one of the bravest performances ever shown on a television program. The only thing I felt that topped it in terms of bravery was Dylan Walsh going at it with the Kimber blow-up doll in season 2 of “Nip/Tuck”.

]]> By: roya http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/03/09/between-iraq-and-a-hard-place-the-children-of-the-21st-century/#comment-4606 roya Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:42:17 +0000 http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/03/09/between-iraq-and-a-hard-place-the-children-of-the-21st-century/#comment-4606 I agree with you SS, that it is a choice to be gay. Women (in general) in the studies bellow have been found to be biosexual in nature, yet most say they are hetero. If people didnt choose then we would have had a lot more gays. "In contrast to men, both heterosexual and lesbian women tend to become sexually aroused by both male and female erotica, and, thus, have a bisexual arousal pattern". "Even gay men who deny their own homosexuality will become more sexually aroused by male sexual stimuli than by female stimuli." (if you're arguing about gay men becoming aroused by women, well men have been found to have sex with animals as well) :mrgreen: Study Suggests Difference Between Female And Male Sexuality http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/06/030613075252.htm

I agree with you SS, that it is a choice to be gay. Women (in general) in the studies bellow have been found to be biosexual in nature, yet most say they are hetero. If people didnt choose then we would have had a lot more gays.

“In contrast to men, both heterosexual and lesbian women tend to become sexually aroused by both male and female erotica, and, thus, have a bisexual arousal pattern”.

“Even gay men who deny their own homosexuality will become more sexually aroused by male sexual stimuli than by female stimuli.”
(if you’re arguing about gay men becoming aroused by women, well men have been found to have sex with animals as well) :mrgreen:

Study Suggests Difference Between Female And Male Sexuality
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/06/030613075252.htm

]]> By: social scientist http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/03/09/between-iraq-and-a-hard-place-the-children-of-the-21st-century/#comment-4600 social scientist Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:45:06 +0000 http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/03/09/between-iraq-and-a-hard-place-the-children-of-the-21st-century/#comment-4600 Tk said: "Most hetero atheists (I assume) take it for granted that gays are attracted to people of the same sex because they are born that way, and we take the view that if two men or two women in a relationship with one another find happiness and fulfillment from their relationship, then who are we to tell them that they shouldn’t? We believe that gays should be accorded the same dignity and respect as everybody else." Tk, Though scientists have looked into it, they have found no genetic physiological evidence to suggest people are born gay, and have like many of us, concluded that to be gay is a CHOICE a lifestyle choice, if this were not so then how do you explain people who were gay when they were young and experimenting with sex, but later had no problem marrying and being sexually aroused by the opposite sex? I repeat, there is no biological cause for being gay that scientists have discovered. It is wrong to stereotype Christians as being against gays, personally as people, that is not true, I am a Christian and I have gay friends who I do not treat any different to my straight or Christian friends. Now if you are talking about legalising gay marriages, or creating more politically correct laws so gays can take Churches, Christians and heterosexuals to court over frivilous issues or Churches being forced by discrimination laws to acknowledge gays as Christians in a position leadership in the church when the Bible forbids it, then that is a different story. Christians are against that! And I wager some atheists don't want the law changed to alter the special meaning and purpose of marriage or to allow them to be sued over frivilous non-criminal politically correct matters either! But that is issues they are against, not people personally who are gay.

Tk said:
“Most hetero atheists (I assume) take it for granted that gays are attracted to people of the same sex because they are born that way, and we take the view that if two men or two women in a relationship with one another find happiness and fulfillment from their relationship, then who are we to tell them that they shouldn’t? We believe that gays should be accorded the same dignity and respect as everybody else.”

Tk,
Though scientists have looked into it, they have found no genetic physiological evidence to suggest people are born gay, and have like many of us, concluded that to be gay is a CHOICE a lifestyle choice, if this were not so then how do you explain people who were gay when they were young and experimenting with sex, but later had no problem marrying and being sexually aroused by the opposite sex? I repeat, there is no biological cause for being gay that scientists have discovered.

It is wrong to stereotype Christians as being against gays, personally as people, that is not true, I am a Christian and I have gay friends who I do not treat any different to my straight or Christian friends. Now if you are talking about legalising gay marriages, or creating more politically correct laws so gays can take Churches, Christians and heterosexuals to court over frivilous issues or Churches being forced by discrimination laws to acknowledge gays as Christians in a position leadership in the church when the Bible forbids it, then that is a different story. Christians are against that! And I wager some atheists don’t want the law changed to alter the special meaning and purpose of marriage or to allow them to be sued over frivilous non-criminal politically correct matters either! But that is issues they are against, not people personally who are gay.

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