Comments on: “Scientists” Warn of “Mutant” Flu http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/01/17/scientists-warn-of-mutant-flu/ Helping Mankind Overcome Religion Mon, 08 Sep 2008 06:35:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Social Scientist http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/01/17/scientists-warn-of-mutant-flu/#comment-3947 Social Scientist Sat, 04 Feb 2006 02:19:11 +0000 http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/01/17/scientists-warn-of-mutant-flu/#comment-3947 To LBBP, In answer to your question see the following: LBBP asks -"For example; where do you get “80% of medical breakthroughs cures for disease are created by Christian research scientists”? Can you show me the results of a study that supports that claim? " Medieval medicine From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Medieval medicine was an evolving mixture of the scientific and the spiritual. In the early middle ages, following the fall of the Roman Empire, standard medical knowledge was based chiefly upon surviving Greek and Roman texts, preserved in monasteries and elsewhere. Ideas about the origin and cure of disease were not, however, purely secular, but were also based on a spiritual world view, in which factors such as destiny and sin played as great a part as any physical cause. In this era, there was no clear tradition of scientific medicine, and accurate observations went hand-in-hand with spiritual beliefs as part of the practice of medicine. The use of herbs dovetailed naturally with this system, the success of herbal remedies being ascribed to their action upon the humours within the body. The use of herbs also drew upon the medieval Christian doctrine of signatures which stated that God had provided some form of alleviation for every ill, and that these things, be they animal, vegetable or mineral, carried a mark or a signature upon them that gave an indication of their usefulness. For example, the seeds of Skullcap (used as a headache remedy) can appear to look like miniature skulls; and the white spotted leaves of Lungwort (used for tuberculosis) bear a similarity to the lungs of a diseased patient. A large number of such resemblances are believed to exist. Most monasteries developed herb gardens for use in the production of herbal cures, and these remained a part of folk medicine, as well as being used by some professional physicians. Books of herbal remedies were produced, one of the most famous being the Welsh, Red Book of Hergest, dating from around 1400. Monastic Medicine Monasteries played a big part in the provision of medieval medicine. Virtually every monastery had an infirmary for the monks or nuns, and this led to provision being made for the care of secular patients. Almost a half of the hospitals in medieval Europe were directly affiliated with monasteries, priories or other religious institutions. Many of the rest imitated religious communities, formulated precise rules of conduct, required a uniform type of dress, and integrated worship services into their daily routine. The term hospital encompassed hostels for travellers, dispensaries for poor relief, clinics and surgeries for the injured, and homes for the blind, lame, elderly, and mentally ill. Monastic hospitals developed many treatments, both therapeutic and spiritual. Patients were supposed to help each other through prayer and calm, perhaps benefiting as much from this as from any physical treatment offered. Leonardo Da Vinci also had a large impact on medical advances during the Renaissance. Born on April 15th, 1452, Da Vinci's approach to science was based on detailed observation. He participated in several autopsies and created many detailed anatomical drawings, planning a major work of comparative human anatomy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_medicine JEWISH NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS IN PHYSIOLOGY OR MEDICINE (28% of world total, 42% of US total) ________________________________________ • Paul Ehrlich (1908) • Elie Metchnikoff 1 (1908) • Robert Bárány (1914) • Otto Meyerhof (1922) • Karl Landsteiner (1930) • Otto Warburg 2 (1931) • Otto Loewi (1936) • Joseph Erlanger (1944) • Herbert Gasser 3 (1944) • Sir Ernst Chain (1945) • Hermann Muller 4 (1946) • Gerty Cori 5 (1947) • Tadeus Reichstein (1950) • Selman Waksman (1952) • Sir Hans Krebs (1953) • Fritz Lipmann (1953) • Joshua Lederberg (1958) • Arthur Kornberg (1959) • Konrad Bloch (1964) • Francois Jacob (1965) • André Lwoff (1965) • George Wald (1967) • Marshall Nirenberg (1968) • Salvador Luria (1969) • Julius Axelrod (1970) • Sir Bernard Katz (1970) • Gerald Edelman (1972) • David Baltimore (1975) • Howard Temin (1975) • Baruch Blumberg (1976) • Andrew Schally 6 (1977) • Rosalyn Yalow (1977) • Daniel Nathans (1978) • Baruj Benacerraf (1980) • Sir John Vane 7 (1982) • César Milstein (1984) • Michael Brown (1985) • Joseph Goldstein (1985) • Stanley Cohen (1986) • Rita Levi-Montalcini (1986) • Gertrude Elion (1988) • Harold Varmus (1989) • Edmond Fischer 8 (1992) • Alfred Gilman 9 (1994) • Martin Rodbell 10 (1994) • Stanley Prusiner 11 (1997) • Robert Furchgott 12 (1998) • Paul Greengard 13 (2000) • Eric Kandel 14 (2000) • Sydney Brenner 15 (2002) • H. Robert Horvitz 16 (2002) • Richard Axel (2004) • Others 17 http://www.jinfo.org/Nobels_Medicine.html Christian Nobel Prize winners - Medicine and Physiology Ramón y Cajal, Santiago 284 Prize : Medicine and Physiology, 1906. Born: May 1, 1852; Petilla de Aragón, Spain. Death: October 18, 1934; Madrid, Spain. Parents: Father, Justo Ramón y Casasús Cajal; Mother, Antonia Cajal. Nationality: Spanish. Religion: Catholic. 1912 Carrel, Alexis 291 Prize : Medicine and Physiology, 1912. Born: June 28, 1873; Sainte Foy-les-Lyon, France. Death:... Célestine Vandenabeele Bordet. Nationality: Belgian. Religion: Christian 1923 Banting, Frederick Grant, Sir 298 Prize: Medicine and Physiology, 1923. Born: November 4, 1891; Alliston, Ontario, Canada. Death: February 21, 1941; Newfoundland, Canada. Parents: Father, William Thompson Banting; Mother, Margaret Grant Banting. Nationality: Canadian. Religion: Methodist 1926 Fibiger, Johannes Andreas Grib 301 Prize : Medicine and Physiology, 1926. Born: April 23, 1867; Silkeborg, Denmark. Death: January 30, 1928; Copenhagen, Denmark. Parents: Father, C.E.A. Fibiger; Mother, Elfride Muller Fibiger. Nationality: Danish. Religion: Lutheran 1932 Adrian, Edgar Douglas, Baron 308 Prize : Medicine and Physiology, 1932. Born: November 30, 1889; London, England. Death: August 4, 1977; London, England. Parents: Father, Alfred Douglas Adrian; Mother, Flora Lavinia Barton Adrian. Nationality: British. Religion: Protestant 1943 Dam, Carl Peter Henrik 320 Prize : Medicine and Physiology, 1943. Born: February 21, 1895; Copenhagen, Denmark. Death: April 18, 1976; Copenhagen, Denmark. Parents: Father, Emil Dam; Mother, Emilie Peterson Dam. Nationality: Danish. Religion: Christian. Florey, Howard Walter, Sir 326 Prize : Medicine and Physiology, 1945. Born: September 24, 1898; Adelaide, Australia. Death: February 21, 1968; Oxford, England. Parents: Father, Joseph Florey; Mother, Bertha Mary Wadham Florey. Nationality: Australian; later British resident. Religion: Christian/Protestant 1960 Burnet, Frank MacFarlane, Sir 354 Prize: Medicine and Physiology, 1960. Born: September 3, 1899; Traralgon, Victoria, Australia. Death: August 31, 1985; Melbourne, Australia. Parents: Father, Frank Burnet; Mother, Hadassah Pollock MacKay Burnet. Nationality: Australian. Religion: Presbyterian 1969 Delbrück, Max 376 Prize : Medicine and Physiology, 1969. Born: September 4, 1906; Berlin, Germany. Death: March 10, 1981; Pasadena, CA. Parents: Father, Hans Delbrück; Mother, Lina Thiersch Delbrück. Nationality: German; later American citizen. Religion: Protestant. Education 1971 Sutherland, Earl Wilbur, Jr. 382 Prize: Medicine and Physiology, 1971. Born: November 19, 1915; Burlingame, KS. Death: March 9, 1974; Miami, FL. Parents: Father, Earl Wilbur Sutherland; Mother, Edith Hartshorn Sutherland. Nationality: American. Religion: Protestant 1974 Claude, Albert 388 Prize : Medicine and Physiology, 1974. Born: August 24, 1898; Longlier (now Luxembourg), Belgium. Death: May 22, 1983; Brussels, Belgium. Parents: Father, Florentin Joseph Claude; Mother, Marie-Glaudicine Wautriquant Claude. Nationality: Belgian; later American citizen. Religion: Catholic. http://www.questia.com/PM.qst;jsessionid=DkGl0rmcpv49xQQGpdsnJ9XtLcrf7MWpgNQSdXZj1VFVXvQgTRkL!1160606902!1708646140?a=o&d=101312040

To LBBP,
In answer to your question see the following:

LBBP asks -”For example; where do you get “80% of medical breakthroughs cures for disease are created by Christian research scientists”? Can you show me the results of a study that supports that claim? ”

Medieval medicine
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Medieval medicine was an evolving mixture of the scientific and the spiritual. In the early middle ages, following the fall of the Roman Empire, standard medical knowledge was based chiefly upon surviving Greek and Roman texts, preserved in monasteries and elsewhere. Ideas about the origin and cure of disease were not, however, purely secular, but were also based on a spiritual world view, in which factors such as destiny and sin played as great a part as any physical cause.
In this era, there was no clear tradition of scientific medicine, and accurate observations went hand-in-hand with spiritual beliefs as part of the practice of medicine. The use of herbs dovetailed naturally with this system, the success of herbal remedies being ascribed to their action upon the humours within the body. The use of herbs also drew upon the medieval Christian doctrine of signatures which stated that God had provided some form of alleviation for every ill, and that these things, be they animal, vegetable or mineral, carried a mark or a signature upon them that gave an indication of their usefulness. For example, the seeds of Skullcap (used as a headache remedy) can appear to look like miniature skulls; and the white spotted leaves of Lungwort (used for tuberculosis) bear a similarity to the lungs of a diseased patient. A large number of such resemblances are believed to exist.

Most monasteries developed herb gardens for use in the production of herbal cures, and these remained a part of folk medicine, as well as being used by some professional physicians. Books of herbal remedies were produced, one of the most famous being the Welsh, Red Book of Hergest, dating from around 1400.

Monastic Medicine Monasteries played a big part in the provision of medieval medicine. Virtually every monastery had an infirmary for the monks or nuns, and this led to provision being made for the care of secular patients. Almost a half of the hospitals in medieval Europe were directly affiliated with monasteries, priories or other religious institutions. Many of the rest imitated religious communities, formulated precise rules of conduct, required a uniform type of dress, and integrated worship services into their daily routine.

The term hospital encompassed hostels for travellers, dispensaries for poor relief, clinics and surgeries for the injured, and homes for the blind, lame, elderly, and mentally ill. Monastic hospitals developed many treatments, both therapeutic and spiritual. Patients were supposed to help each other through prayer and calm, perhaps benefiting as much from this as from any physical treatment offered.

Leonardo Da Vinci also had a large impact on medical advances during the Renaissance. Born on April 15th, 1452, Da Vinci’s approach to science was based on detailed observation. He participated in several autopsies and created many detailed anatomical drawings, planning a major work of comparative human anatomy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_medicine

JEWISH NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS IN PHYSIOLOGY OR MEDICINE
(28% of world total, 42% of US total)
________________________________________
• Paul Ehrlich (1908)
• Elie Metchnikoff 1 (1908)
• Robert Bárány (1914)
• Otto Meyerhof (1922)
• Karl Landsteiner (1930)
• Otto Warburg 2 (1931)
• Otto Loewi (1936)
• Joseph Erlanger (1944)
• Herbert Gasser 3 (1944)
• Sir Ernst Chain (1945)
• Hermann Muller 4 (1946)
• Gerty Cori 5 (1947)
• Tadeus Reichstein (1950)
• Selman Waksman (1952)
• Sir Hans Krebs (1953)
• Fritz Lipmann (1953)
• Joshua Lederberg (1958)
• Arthur Kornberg (1959)
• Konrad Bloch (1964)
• Francois Jacob (1965)
• André Lwoff (1965)
• George Wald (1967)
• Marshall Nirenberg (1968)
• Salvador Luria (1969)
• Julius Axelrod (1970)
• Sir Bernard Katz (1970)
• Gerald Edelman (1972)
• David Baltimore (1975)
• Howard Temin (1975)
• Baruch Blumberg (1976)
• Andrew Schally 6 (1977)
• Rosalyn Yalow (1977)
• Daniel Nathans (1978)
• Baruj Benacerraf (1980)
• Sir John Vane 7 (1982)
• César Milstein (1984)
• Michael Brown (1985)
• Joseph Goldstein (1985)
• Stanley Cohen (1986)
• Rita Levi-Montalcini (1986)
• Gertrude Elion (1988)
• Harold Varmus (1989)
• Edmond Fischer 8 (1992)
• Alfred Gilman 9 (1994)
• Martin Rodbell 10 (1994)
• Stanley Prusiner 11 (1997)
• Robert Furchgott 12 (1998)
• Paul Greengard 13 (2000)
• Eric Kandel 14 (2000)
• Sydney Brenner 15 (2002)
• H. Robert Horvitz 16 (2002)
• Richard Axel (2004)
• Others 17
http://www.jinfo.org/Nobels_Medicine.html

Christian Nobel Prize winners - Medicine and Physiology
Ramón y Cajal, Santiago 284
Prize : Medicine and Physiology, 1906. Born: May 1, 1852; Petilla de Aragón, Spain. Death: October 18, 1934; Madrid, Spain. Parents: Father, Justo Ramón y Casasús Cajal; Mother, Antonia Cajal. Nationality: Spanish. Religion: Catholic.

1912
Carrel, Alexis 291
Prize : Medicine and Physiology, 1912. Born: June 28, 1873; Sainte Foy-les-Lyon, France. Death:… Célestine Vandenabeele Bordet. Nationality: Belgian. Religion: Christian

1923
Banting, Frederick Grant, Sir 298
Prize: Medicine and Physiology, 1923. Born: November 4, 1891; Alliston, Ontario, Canada. Death: February 21, 1941; Newfoundland, Canada. Parents: Father, William Thompson Banting; Mother, Margaret Grant Banting. Nationality: Canadian. Religion: Methodist

1926
Fibiger, Johannes Andreas Grib 301
Prize : Medicine and Physiology, 1926. Born: April 23, 1867; Silkeborg, Denmark. Death: January 30, 1928; Copenhagen, Denmark. Parents: Father, C.E.A. Fibiger; Mother, Elfride Muller Fibiger. Nationality: Danish. Religion: Lutheran

1932
Adrian, Edgar Douglas, Baron 308
Prize : Medicine and Physiology, 1932. Born: November 30, 1889; London, England. Death: August 4, 1977; London, England. Parents: Father, Alfred Douglas Adrian; Mother, Flora Lavinia Barton Adrian. Nationality: British. Religion: Protestant

1943
Dam, Carl Peter Henrik 320
Prize : Medicine and Physiology, 1943. Born: February 21, 1895; Copenhagen, Denmark. Death: April 18, 1976; Copenhagen, Denmark. Parents: Father, Emil Dam; Mother, Emilie Peterson Dam. Nationality: Danish. Religion: Christian.

Florey, Howard Walter, Sir 326
Prize : Medicine and Physiology, 1945. Born: September 24, 1898; Adelaide, Australia. Death: February 21, 1968; Oxford, England. Parents: Father, Joseph Florey; Mother, Bertha Mary Wadham Florey. Nationality: Australian; later British resident. Religion: Christian/Protestant

1960
Burnet, Frank MacFarlane, Sir 354
Prize: Medicine and Physiology, 1960. Born: September 3, 1899; Traralgon, Victoria, Australia. Death: August 31, 1985; Melbourne, Australia. Parents: Father, Frank Burnet; Mother, Hadassah Pollock MacKay Burnet. Nationality: Australian. Religion: Presbyterian

1969
Delbrück, Max 376
Prize : Medicine and Physiology, 1969. Born: September 4, 1906; Berlin, Germany. Death: March 10, 1981; Pasadena, CA. Parents: Father, Hans Delbrück; Mother, Lina Thiersch Delbrück. Nationality: German; later American citizen. Religion: Protestant. Education

1971
Sutherland, Earl Wilbur, Jr. 382
Prize: Medicine and Physiology, 1971. Born: November 19, 1915; Burlingame, KS. Death: March 9, 1974; Miami, FL. Parents: Father, Earl Wilbur Sutherland; Mother, Edith Hartshorn Sutherland. Nationality: American. Religion: Protestant

1974
Claude, Albert 388
Prize : Medicine and Physiology, 1974. Born: August 24, 1898; Longlier (now Luxembourg), Belgium. Death: May 22, 1983; Brussels, Belgium. Parents: Father, Florentin Joseph Claude; Mother, Marie-Glaudicine Wautriquant Claude. Nationality: Belgian; later American citizen. Religion: Catholic.

http://www.questia.com/PM.qst;jsessionid=DkGl0rmcpv49xQQGpdsnJ9XtLcrf7MWpgNQSdXZj1VFVXvQgTRkL!1160606902!1708646140?a=o&d=101312040

]]> By: Thomas Kearney http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/01/17/scientists-warn-of-mutant-flu/#comment-3944 Thomas Kearney Fri, 03 Feb 2006 15:11:45 +0000 http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/01/17/scientists-warn-of-mutant-flu/#comment-3944 No, of course God does not work like that, because this God does not exist.

No, of course God does not work like that, because this God does not exist.

]]> By: Social Scientist http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/01/17/scientists-warn-of-mutant-flu/#comment-3943 Social Scientist Fri, 03 Feb 2006 06:26:18 +0000 http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/01/17/scientists-warn-of-mutant-flu/#comment-3943 Tk, Hate to say it but God doesn't work like that. Sure He knows in advance what you will do, but He does not judge people in advance for the sins they have not yet committed or withhold His provisions for future sins. Miraculously He does not even judge people for what they are doing right now because He has set a day of judgement and extends a period of grace to sinners till then. Though of course He may remove His gifting and blessing from people because of their present behaviour but always seeks to restore them to a place of blessing, gifting and service as a priority. This has been enlightening for me because it explains to me why I have not heard much about Mel Tari for about ten years or so when he was in the news all the time, it makes sense if he has gone off the straight and narrow path.

Tk,
Hate to say it but God doesn’t work like that. Sure He knows in advance what you will do, but He does not judge people in advance for the sins they have not yet committed or withhold His provisions for future sins. Miraculously He does not even judge people for what they are doing right now because He has set a day of judgement and extends a period of grace to sinners till then. Though of course He may remove His gifting and blessing from people because of their present behaviour but always seeks to restore them to a place of blessing, gifting and service as a priority. This has been enlightening for me because it explains to me why I have not heard much about Mel Tari for about ten years or so when he was in the news all the time, it makes sense if he has gone off the straight and narrow path.

]]> By: Tommykey http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/01/17/scientists-warn-of-mutant-flu/#comment-3939 Tommykey Thu, 02 Feb 2006 15:53:21 +0000 http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/01/17/scientists-warn-of-mutant-flu/#comment-3939 SS, I reject Jesus Christ as my lord and savior with all of my heart. :twisted: If we live in a universe in which a deity judges us more by whether or not we believed in and accepted a poorly documented figure as a savior rather than by our deeds and works, then we are living under a galactic tyranny that makes the Emperor and Darth Vader of Star Wars seem positively moderate and progressive by comparison. Veiled threats of living in eternal damnation do not scare me because I know that no such place exists. For example, as per your exchange with LBBP above and elsewhere, the Mel Tari you cite as having miraculous healing powers is a convicted fraud and con artist. Do you honestly expect me to believe that some deity is going to bestow healing powers on a man who purports to believe in Christ while overlooking the man's criminal activities against other people? IF he is a con artist, then he cannot be a Christian, because a true Christian, as you say, would not commit crimes against other people. And if you are going to argue that he was a healer and then got tempted by the devil or something, then you have a conundrum. Because if God knows everything, then God would not give healing powers to a man knowing that after performing a few healings, that same man would be able to take advantage of his reputation to defraud others.

SS, I reject Jesus Christ as my lord and savior with all of my heart. :twisted:

If we live in a universe in which a deity judges us more by whether or not we believed in and accepted a poorly documented figure as a savior rather than by our deeds and works, then we are living under a galactic tyranny that makes the Emperor and Darth Vader of Star Wars seem positively moderate and progressive by comparison.

Veiled threats of living in eternal damnation do not scare me because I know that no such place exists.

For example, as per your exchange with LBBP above and elsewhere, the Mel Tari you cite as having miraculous healing powers is a convicted fraud and con artist. Do you honestly expect me to believe that some deity is going to bestow healing powers on a man who purports to believe in Christ while overlooking the man’s criminal activities against other people? IF he is a con artist, then he cannot be a Christian, because a true Christian, as you say, would not commit crimes against other people. And if you are going to argue that he was a healer and then got tempted by the devil or something, then you have a conundrum. Because if God knows everything, then God would not give healing powers to a man knowing that after performing a few healings, that same man would be able to take advantage of his reputation to defraud others.

]]> By: LBBP http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/01/17/scientists-warn-of-mutant-flu/#comment-3935 LBBP Thu, 02 Feb 2006 06:49:37 +0000 http://evangelicalatheist.com/2006/01/17/scientists-warn-of-mutant-flu/#comment-3935 Social Scientist: You choose to believe in your "miracle", but you also quote the "miraculous" work of Mel Tari a man convicted of fraud. Those that peddle miracles always have an ulterior motive. Mel Tari was trying to defraud wealthy heiresses out of their fortunes, and you appear to be trying to cover your doubt and insecurity about your "faith" by trying to convince others of your piety. The tools are the same in both cases, exaggerate your claims, use selective memory to convince yourself, then make up stupid shit when faced with opposition. For example; where do you get <i>"80% of medical breakthroughs cures for disease are created by Christian research scientists"</i>? Can you show me the results of a study that supports that claim?

Social Scientist: You choose to believe in your “miracle”, but you also quote the “miraculous” work of Mel Tari a man convicted of fraud. Those that peddle miracles always have an ulterior motive. Mel Tari was trying to defraud wealthy heiresses out of their fortunes, and you appear to be trying to cover your doubt and insecurity about your “faith” by trying to convince others of your piety. The tools are the same in both cases, exaggerate your claims, use selective memory to convince yourself, then make up stupid shit when faced with opposition. For example; where do you get “80% of medical breakthroughs cures for disease are created by Christian research scientists”? Can you show me the results of a study that supports that claim?

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