Dead Girls and Lost Boys: A Solution
Polygamy is illegal in the United States. Thank goodness the law has eliminated this problem as it has with other social bugaboos like illicit drugs and prostitution.
While it looks good on paper, the nation is still full of Mormon crack whores. Well, these three problems don’t usually occur with the same people, but there must be a few. For the moment, let’s ignore drugs and hookers, because those are both enjoyed by far more people. I want to focus on polygamy, which is alive and well not only in the Sovereign Mormon Kingdom of Utah, but also in the United States.
I have recently encountered several articles and TV spots about the “Lost Boys.” This has nothing to do with Jason Patric or a ticking alligator. I’m talking about hundreds (some say as many as 1,000) of teenage boys that have been exiled from fundamentalist Mormon communities in the western U.S. over the last several years. Why? Well, the religion elders have excellent reasons, like short sleeves, which are an abomination to the ghost of Joseph Smith or whatever the hell it is they worship. Combine that with a cardinal sin like listening to CDs, and it’s completely understandable that these children are shunned by their families, told they are going to hell and left on the side of the highway in the middle of the desert to fend for themselves with nothing but the survival skills they learned in an isolated, backward community of cultists.
The real reason for these expulsions should be obvious to anyone who can count. If a man must have at least three wives to get into heaven, and boys and girls are born in roughly equal numbers, then there aren’t going to be enough females to go around. Some of the boys have to be cut from the Mormon team to keep things balanced. It makes perfect sense to me. How dare I infringe upon their religious freedom by telling them that middle-aged men can’t abandon teenage boys and marry their female counterparts en masse?
Luckily, the Chinese and Indians kill their baby daughters. I bet you never thought of that as lucky before, but hear me out. For thousands of years, female infanticide has been practiced in China and India. The Chinese are encouraged to do this by Confucianism, which has no explicitly stated position on the inferiority of women, but which holds the father-son relationship as the most important, even over the husband-wife relationship. The Indians are encouraged to do this by the Vedas (the oldest Hindu scriptures), which contain passages like “Hence they reject a female child when born, and take up a male.” [source]. Again, religious freedom must be upheld. Hindus and Confucianists must be permitted the wholesale slaughter of half the population.
The solution is a swap. I propose an intercontinental, unwanted child-trading program in which male, teenage Mormons are flown to China and India in exchange for imports of female babies. I know what you’re worried about. Utah’s population is about 0.1% of China and India combined. That’s OK. The exchange rate would be set at 1,000 female babies for each male Mormon. Finally, a good exchange rate with China! Everybody wins. The Chinese and Indians get some extra boys, and the Mormons get more wives than they know what to do with. As a bonus, they’re still babies. The sick bastards can start raping and molesting them immediately instead of using their own daughters like they do now.
~I AM~
August 10th, 2005 at at 3:46 pm
Mormons are a scary bunch to be sure, but I have to keep reminding myself that they are really no crazier than “mainstream” Christians. I love to hear these Christians criticize Mormons. Yeah, their beliefs are crazy but yours are perfectly rationale. Lol!
August 10th, 2005 at at 6:06 pm
There are plenty of priests looking for boys.
August 10th, 2005 at at 6:35 pm
Did you actually read the article reference by “daughters” in the last sentence?
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/whatis/rules/fear.htm
The point was that the charges were NOT true. Inocent people were arrested, tried, and convicted.
August 10th, 2005 at at 6:46 pm
Oops. Guilty. I may have skimmed that one. I’ve replaced the link. There’s certainly no shortage of examples.
August 10th, 2005 at at 7:16 pm
How do I sign up to be a Mormon?
August 10th, 2005 at at 7:29 pm
I think you start here.
I got a free Book of Mormon a couple of years ago. They called me up about six months later to ask me how I’d liked it. It told them I had converted, so there was no reason to call me again. Everyone should get one. If you don’t want it, just throw it away, but make them send it to you. It costs them money.
August 10th, 2005 at at 7:57 pm
I wanted to get them to send one once for that exact reason but I thought their website said it would be delivered by one of their cult members and didn’t want to mess with it. Can you get a book via normal mail?
August 10th, 2005 at at 8:06 pm
Yes. They ask you to check the personal delivery box, but it’s optional.
August 11th, 2005 at at 12:55 pm
Holy shit! I recently read an article in the newspaper where some teenage boys were upset about being kicked out of their Mormon communities for basically being too much into pop culture. These boys werent allowed to see their mothers or families and had nowhere to go. Of course it was the male elders that kicked them all out.
But the links you provided here make the situation seem much worse even. Its pretty twisted how a religion can blind you so much to think that you need three wives to get into heaven, and boys and girls are born at a near 50-50 split. What kind of loving God comes up with those numbers? Sheeeeeeeit!
So how does a female get into the third level of heaven anyway? Does she have to be one of three wives to qualify?
Im totally getting a free copy of the book of Mormon now. I just filled out the form. I already got a free Quran from CARM (a nicely made copy by the way).
Now one question: how do I get my hands on a free copy of the REAL Bible, the King James Version 1611? I specifically want the KJV 1611 (not the 1631 or any other shitty version). And the best I can do right now is find copies for SALE. But I want one for free!
August 11th, 2005 at at 1:33 pm
Brilliant! This, along with Swift’s “A Modest Proposal” is on track to solve all the worlds problems! If only people weren’t so damned moral…
August 11th, 2005 at at 1:37 pm
Do you mean CAIR? I don’t think CARM is likely to give out Qurans.
As for free Bibles, there are several places to get them, but I don’t know if they’re 1611 editions. They never specify.
August 11th, 2005 at at 2:35 pm
Stay out of Utah and don’t buy anything from them. Well at least until they join us in the 21st century. Great idea though. But wouldn’t that just make more of the people who should be effectivly slowing the spread of their populations..
August 11th, 2005 at at 3:27 pm
Good idea. Too bad the Mormons probably wouldn’t go for it. I’m betting they would have a problem thinking of their sons being raised heathen. This is as illogical as anything else they might think, because without heathens, the whole missionary money machine would grind to a halt. Besides that, it would give them a foot in the door to the communities where the kids were dumped. “Come back to the fold that screwed you! It’s in your blood!” No reason why it wouldn’t work, there hasn’t been a religious appeal yet that was too whacky to work on somebody (as far as I can tell).
August 11th, 2005 at at 7:45 pm
Re: “Stay out of Utah…”
But the skiing/snowboarding is so good there!
August 11th, 2005 at at 10:00 pm
Indeed, it is wonderful. But I doubt the mormans are directly connected with the inner economy of the ski slopes.
August 12th, 2005 at at 1:03 am
I want to comment on the Hindu text reference that you have given.
I didn’t saw the page… just because it is on dalitistan.com..
It’s a racial site… that believes in so called low caste Hindus as original inhabitants of India and so called high castes as foreigners and invaders…
There has been oppression but believing in races as castes and interpreting Hindu texts as bad to prove your point is all this site is about…
I was born to a Hindu family… but I don’t think Hinduism has such beliefs…
You should check your references… and don’t give references to such racial sites…
I believe Hinduism is as bad and as good as other religion…
August 12th, 2005 at at 2:02 am
ND:
1. The quote is valid. I can find it in 10 other places.
2. Castes are bad. Period. I don’t care who belongs to which one. The system is oppressive.
3. There is no consensus on the history of India, but there is a good bit of evidence for the Aryan invasion theory.
4. You’re right about one thing. Hinduism is as bad as other religions.
August 12th, 2005 at at 2:42 am
I haven’t said caste system is good… I have said there was oppression…
There is so much politics going on in India on this…
There are people who think that Dravidian race was very good civilization that was destroyed by the Aryans… These people believe that the Indus Valley civilization was of Dravidian Race…
And there are people who say that the Aryans were the People who started they civilization in India….
You can find tens of sites with these contradicting views….
I believe that caste system was racial…. and it had to be done away with… as already done by Constitution of India…
There can debate on how much is achieved socially out of it…
What I was saying you are quoting from a racist site and interpreting a text based upon their belief is bad….
And just because you found it on many sites does not make it true…
BTW I consider the Vedas as exaggerated accounts of some actual happenings… If some body has killed a girl child does not mean that Hinduism says that…
Thou shall kill girl child and only take the Male Child…
You should also consider that there is similar propaganda being done by Christian missionaries in India… that uses these things to convert so called low caste Hindus to Christianity…. Just think about… converting from Hinduism to Christianity for better rights for women!! Give me a break…
You think Christianity treats women any better than Hinduism does??
I believe NO…
August 12th, 2005 at at 8:15 am
I don’t defend Christianity. I don’t know why you’re coming back to that. I’m not arguing that Hinduism is worse than Christianity. Both should be eliminated.
If the Vedic texts are sacred in Hinduism (which they are), AND female infanticide has occurred in India for thousands of years (which it has), AND the Vedas state or imply that it’s better to have a male child than a female (which they do), THEN maybe, just maybe, there’s a connection. That’s the point I’m making.
August 12th, 2005 at at 10:41 am
As a former Mormon, perhaps I should comment…
First, the fundamentalist groups referenced in the articles are off-shoots of the main body of Mormons (in case someone was getting that confused). Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending the main body of Mormons (formally The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), far from it. But make sure you get your accusations accurate. These groups are often referred to as “fundamentalist” Mormons (one is even called The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). While many of these groups are located in rural central and southern Utah, there is also a significant body of polygamist/fundamentalist Mormons in the greater Salt Lake area and there are also a few enclaves in Colorado, Arizona, and Canada. So, make certain you point the fingers in the right direction.
Second, there probably is some merit to the claim that the young men are being kicked out due to an over-abundance of males. But you should also make sure you have your information correct here. First, the male-to-female ratio at birth in most countries is 105:100 in favor of males (this ratio balances out by the late 20s because of the higher risk behaviors of young men). So, technically, for every 100 women born there are 105 men born. The exceptions to this rule are China and India, due to sex selection and abortion. I also don’t believe China has been practicing female infanticide for hundreds or thousands of years (India maybe; I’m less familiar with their situation) but only since the institution of the “one-child” policy in the late 60s and early 70s.
Finally, I’m going to have to take issue with one last thing. I don’t think polygamy is wrong. Think about it, if someone is willing to be the second, third, or fourth wife/husband of another person, that should be their prerogative. Any forward thinking person who embraces alternative forms of sexuality should agree. Why should the government regulate how many sexual partners we can have? That is missing the boat. What the government should do and where I have an issue with these polygamous groups is more stricly enforce statutory rape laws. I think a more accurate criticism of this groups – which would potentially lead to change – would be to force them to let their children out of their enclaves for a year (like the Amish do) at around 18 years old to experience the world. If they decide they don’t want to come back, no problem. If they do, well, they would be in a better position to make that decision.
As far as the trade idea, while it’s a humorous proposition (and, of course, meant in jest), I found it funny, even though it would be condemning the Chinese girls to lives as sex servants.
(Sorry about the length, but when you post on a topic I’m familiar with, I have to say something.)
August 12th, 2005 at at 11:29 am
Yea I meant CAIR. Thanx for catching that! I think I wrote CARM instead because theres a debate between Derek Sansone and Matt Slick (head of CARM) coming up this weekend on the Hellbound Alleee radio show.
I was trying to get a Book of Mormon yesterday and when I submitted the info I got a network busy error. Im gonna try again today. Dammit I want to get my Book of Mormon on!
August 12th, 2005 at at 11:46 am
exmoron:
But make sure you get your accusations accurate.
I specified that they were fundamentalist Mormons.
So, make certain you point the fingers in the right direction.
I also specified that the problem went beyond Utah.
I also don’t believe China has been practicing female infanticide for hundreds or thousands of years
Actually, this has been an on and off problem in China since at least the Qing dynasty.
I don’t think polygamy is wrong.
I don’t either. I think it’s illegal, and I think it leads to higher rates of child abandonment, incest, child abuse and statutory rape than you find in the general popluation. As I’ve said about religion in general, if it could exist in a benign state forever, I would be content to leave it alone. However, neither religion nor polygamy is benign as practiced.
Sorry about the length
That’s nothing to apologize for. Thank you for taking the time to contribute to the discussion.
August 12th, 2005 at at 12:15 pm
I’ve seen pictures of dead, abandoned baby girls on Chinese streets. It is very much still a problem there. In some areas of China, particularly rural parts where selective abortion isn’t common/possible, there are so many more baby boys than girls that polyandry is gonna have to be practiced in that country.
I’ve heard far more negative stories about polygamy than positive ones. I generally don’t agree that people should be told what to do with their personal lives, but I’ve read a lot about polyandry and polygyny in many different societies/cultures and they rarely work. People are jealous by nature. It is extremely difficult for everyone to be emotionally fulfilled in plural relationships.
Furthermore, I have a problem with the vast numbers of children often born into polygynous relationships. I’ve read stories of many people who grew up feeling they didn’t really get to know their fathers – because when there are that many kids how much quality time does any one child get?
Obviously, plenty of similar problems exist in monogamous relationships, too. Plenty of people cheat, or have multiple marriages over time… but it’s still not quite the same thing.
I’ve argued before that marriage, as we define it, has become meaningless to most (though not to me or my husband)… people just don’t care. So in that sense, there’s no point in regulating any of it.
We may as well all have multiple partners, join a commune and just have orgies. Okay, I don’t think my husband is reading, but if you are, dear… I don’t mean “us” when I saw “we”.
August 12th, 2005 at at 12:17 pm
Sorry, the above should have said that infanticide seems especially prevalent in rural areas, followed by the bit about the skewed ratios of boys to girls.
August 12th, 2005 at at 1:37 pm
Female infanticide has been practiced so well, so enthusiastically and for so long in parts of western India (specifically, the state of Punjab) that there are not many local women available to get married, so the unmarried young men are importing brides from other parts of India in order to raise families… Good, in that they learn something a wee bit less insular, BAD if they refuse to learn from their parents’ mistakes and continue to kill girl babies. Anyone care to guess what they’ll do? *rolls eyes*
August 12th, 2005 at at 2:01 pm
A couple of thoughs:
(1) I didn’t mean to imply that you (I Am) were referring to the main body of Mormons. It just seemed that the discussion in the comments was headed that way. I figured I should make that clear.
(2) Anyone have a good link on sex selection in China and its history?
(3) The question of outlawing polygamy is a tough one (even though it is already outlawed in the U.S.). If we are going to outlaw everything that leads to problems, then why haven’t we outlawed guns (which cause far more heartache than polygamy)? It’s all about a balance between personal liberty and protecting the innocent. I don’t think there’s an easy answer here, but regulating people’s sex lives is a little farther than I’m willing to go. I agree with addict_no_more to some extent, I have no problem with people living in communal relationships and having orgies every night, as long as no one is forced to participate. It’s the lack of personal liberty/choice that is disturbing to me.
August 14th, 2005 at at 3:34 pm
“Population sex ratios in China do not fit the category of ‘normal.’ For centuries or even millennia, China’s population has had an abnormal shortage of females. Evidence from China’s last dynasty, the Qing dynasty 1644-1911, indicates a shortage of girls in families from the highest social classes to the lowest (Lee and Wang 1999). The dearth of girls was caused by female infanticide immediately after birth (drowning, exposure, suffocation, abandonment) or by untimely childhood deaths through selective neglect or maltreatment of girls.
Why were some daughters killed, abandoned, neglected, or maltreated to death in old China? The main reason was a strong Confucian value system that honoured almost all males over nearly all females. Important religious and ancestral rituals were reserved for males. It was believed, and still is today, that the family lineage can be continued only through sons; this attitude is especially strong in Taiwan and southeast parts of the Chinese mainland (Poston et al. 2000; Yang and Chen 2003). Men but not women owned property. A girl was owned by her father and a woman was controlled by her husband and his family. At marriage in her late teens, a daughter was lost to her natal family as she married out to a different village and thereafter worked for and cared for her husband’s relatives. A daughter was generally seen as costing more to her parents than they would ever get back from her. Therefore daughters, at least some daughters, were treated as expendable.”
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0PCG/is_1_21/ai_n6155263